Houston Democrats

I would direct Mr. Tobin to the website for the International Klans of America, http://kkkk.net/home.htm. There he will find a most vociferous link between the Ku Klux Klan and christianity. The Republican party has consistently pandered to the bigotry inherent in right wing christian fundamentalism. That is why Rick Perry signed the anti-abortion legislation in a christian school rather than his office. Mr. Tobin, where is your sheet?

Happy Thanksgiving!

November 23, 2005, 8:24 a.m.
The Crying Game
So near in Iraq, so far at home.

"The president misled us." "Still no WMDs." "If I had only known then what I do now…"

This is the intellectual level of Democratic wartime criticism about the Bush administration as we near the third Iraqi election — the one that will finally give faces to the first truly elected parliamentary government in the Arab world.

So what is behind this crying game at home — when we are so close to achieving our goals abroad?

Bad polls and far-worse casualties. With over 2,000 American dead in Iraq, the politicians think their own brilliant three-week war was ruined by George Bush’s 32-month failed reconstruction.

But the Democratic establishment’s anger is even more complicated than that since it is not yet quite sure of the mood of the fickle American people.

True, from the very beginning a small group of leftists has done its best to mischaracterize the effort to remove Saddam Hussein as some sort of Halliburton, “no-blood-for oil,” “Bush lied/thousands died,” “neocon” war “for Israel.” But despite the occasional auxiliary efforts of the elite press, until now there were really no takers in the mainstream Democratic party for the vehement antiwar crowd’s slander for at least three reasons.

One was the crazies. By that I mean that the Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, and Cindy Sheehan factions have a propensity to go lunatic and say or do anything — like shamefully praising the murdering terrorists who blow apart Iraqi women and children and U.S. soldiers as "Minutemen,” or calling the president of the United States “the world’s greatest terrorist.”

A sanctimonious Jimmy Carter may sit next to the buffoonish Michael Moore at the Democratic Convention in VIP seats, but the inclusion of his name with Rep. John Murtha’s is still apparently considered by liberals to be an outright slander. So up until now invoking Bush as a "liar" and our enemies as "heroes" was considered over the top.

Two, the Democratic left wing was wrong on the Cold War and mostly wrong on Gulf War I. With minorities in the Congress, fearful that they might never again be trusted on national security, and cognizant that both Bill Clinton’s campaign against Milosevic and George Bush’s war against the Taliban had been relatively cost-free, they outdid themselves in calling for invasion of Iraq.

Go back and read any of the statements of John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, or Jay Rockefeller about the dangers of Saddam Hussein and the need to take him out. Only then can you understand why the U.S. Senate voted overwhelmingly, with a strong Democratic majority, to authorize a war.

So up until now, Democrats had an embarrassing paper trail that in the era of Google searches made it hard to claim that the war was Bush’s alone and not their own. Indeed, as long as casualties were considered "tolerable" and the polls stable, most Democrats continued to talk in accordance with their own past votes and wanted to bask in the success of ending the Hussein nightmare.

Three, most Democrats knew the history of the George McGovern pullout campaign of 1972 that ended in disaster for the party at large. It just isn’t smart to lose American wars by cutting out — unless you have a Watergate for cover. Yet so far not outing a CIA employee who was not a covert agent does not make a scandal.

For all the media pizzazz about the peace candidate Howard Dean, the good Dr. had not a prayer of winning either the nomination or the presidency. Indeed, his tenure as chairman of the Democratic party has been a Republican godsend, since, like McGovern, he has the propensity in a single moment of heartfelt sincerity to scare the hell out of the American people.

Thus the savvy strategy as the casualties grew was to quibble, ankle-bite, and offer empty platitudes like “Get the U.N. back there,” “Get NATO in,” and “Get the Arab League on board,” rather than offering an ad hoc alternative plan of leaving Iraq in the style of Vietnam, Lebanon, or Mogadishu.

Two of those reservations have now vanished, as George Bush’s flight suit; the museum looting; Saddam’s public dental exam; the embalming of the Hussein boys; naked pictures from Abu Ghraib; a supposedly flushed Koran in Guantanamo Bay; rants on the Senate floor; the Scooter Libby indictment; comparisons of the U.S. military to Saddam Hussein; Nazi Germany; Stalin; and Pol Pot; the broadsides of Joe Wilson; Richard Clarke; General Anthony Zinni; Brent Scowcroft; Lawrence Wilkerson, et al.; lies that our soldiers targeted Western journalists; the meae culpae of prominent former war supporters from Francis Fukuyama to George Packer; white phosphorus; leaks about supposed CIA torture prisons abroad — along with mostly silence from the embattled administration and U.S. combat dead exceeding 2,000 — have changed the political calculus.

So Democrats have overcome two caveats. First, they are beginning to sound like Michael Moore while distancing themselves from Michael Moore. Second, they have come up with a clever escape ploy from their own previous rhetoric. Yes, they voted for the war, but the intelligence they had was “not the same” as the president’s. And besides, they were merely senators who fund wars, while George Bush was the commander-in-chief who directs them. “He started it — not us” may be the stuff of errant boys on the playground, but it apparently offers a way out of past embarrassing speeches and votes. Even more clever, they now claim that voting “to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq” in October 2002 is not quite the same as actually authorizing a war in March 2003.

Consequently, the Democrats are now inching toward jettisoning their final reservation and embracing the Howard Dean cut-and-run position. Still, shrewd pros like a Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Dianne Feinstein, or Chuck Schumer are not quite there yet for two other understandable worries. The polls say Americans are tired of the war, but not yet ready to quit and give up on all that has been achieved, leaving brave Iraqi reformers to ninth-century beheaders and suicide-murderers.

Second, these more astute Democrats are not sure that the Iraqi gambit might not work, especially with the December election coming up, the public trial of Saddam, the growth of the Iraqi security forces, and the changed attitudes in Europe, Jordan, and Lebanon. Many talk a lot about Vietnam circa 1967 but deep down and in silence most have mixed emotions about Saigon 1975.

For now Democrats stammer, sputter, and go the Bush shoulda / coulda route — not quite ready to take the McGovern sharp turn, forever waiting on polls and events on the ground in Iraq, always unsure whether peace and democracy will come before the 2,500th American fatality.

Yet as they hedge — on television praising Congressmen Murtha who advocates withdrawal, but making sure they vote overwhelmingly on the record to reject his advice — they should consider some critical questions.

First, are the metrics of this war in the terrorists’ or our favor? Are the Iraqi security forces growing or shrinking? Are elections postponed or on schedule? Are Europe, Jordan, Lebanon, and others more or less sympathetic to a war against Islamic terrorism in Iraq? Are bin Laden, Zawahiri, and Zarqawi more or less popular or secure after we removed Saddam? Is al Qaeda in a strengthened or weakened position? Is the Arab world more or less receptive to democracy in the Gulf, Egypt, Lebanon, and the West Bank? And is the United States more or less vulnerable to a terrorist attack as we go into our fifth year since September 11?

I ask those questions in all sincerity since the conventional wisdom — compared to the true wisdom and compassion of those valiantly fighting the terrorists under the most impossible of conditions — is that we are losing in Iraq, our enemies are emboldened, and the Arab world has turned against us. But if we forget the banality of New York Times columnists, the admonitions of NPR experts, and the daily rants of a Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, or Al Gore, more sober and street-smart Democrats are in fact not so sure of these answers.

So these wiser ones wait and hedge their wagers. They give full rein to the usefully idiotic and irresponsible in their midst, but make no move yet to undo what thousands of brave American soldiers have accomplished in Iraq.

What exactly is that? Despite acrimony at home, the politics of two national elections and a third on the horizon, and the slander of war crimes and incompetence, those on the battlefield of Iraq have almost pulled off the unthinkable — the restructuring of the politics of the Middle East in less than three years.

And for now that is still a strong hand to bet against.

— Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. His latest book is A War Like No Other. How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War.

Hanson writes, "What exactly is that? Despite acrimony at home, the politics of two national elections and a third on the horizon, and the slander of war crimes and incompetence, those on the battlefield of Iraq have almost pulled off the unthinkable — the restructuring of the politics of the Middle East in less than three years."

Ah yes, Ms. Diamico. This is what Amerika's about..........the restructuring of geopolitics on the battlefield??? I don't think so. Anyone else?

Jennifer, from where do you get your information? You say the Democrats were privy to the same information as the President -- you couldn't be more wrong. It has long been a practice that the President gets a "Presidential Daily Briefing" that contains classified information that only a very few people see. Those few people do NOT include members of Congress or the Senate. That said, more people than not believe that the President took that information and twisted it, distorted it, and fed it to the people we elected, the Democrats and Republicans who voted for the war. Which, by the way, they did not necessarily vote for the war. They voted to give the President authority to take our country to war only as a LAST resort, believing he would take that course, which he did not. King George planned and publically said, long before he stole the first election, that he wanted to be known as a War President. He wanted this to be his legacy. Do a Google search on the Downing Street Memos or Minutes and see what you come up with.

You characterize Michael Moore, Noam Chausky and Cindy Sheehan as "crazies", and those who follow their lead crazies as well. Let me tell you something. I am one of those "leftist crazies" who was in Crawford with Cindy the day she marched to King George's ranch. I am one of those "leftist crazies" whose only son died in this war. I am one of those "leftist crazies" who wants to know the truth, to end this unjust war, and to bring our sons and daughters home.

Let me tell you just how "crazy" this particular "leftist crazy" is. I USED to be a Republican and I voted for King George the first time around. I am very middle of the road and fairly moderate in my politics. Never again will I vote straight Democrat, Republican or any other party. The people who are closest to me would tell you that I have a tendency to underreact to situations than to overreact. I have the ability (sometimes to the frustration of my friends and family) to see BOTH sides of almost any situation and to see the silver lining in the storm clouds. I am by no means a pacifist. That's how "leftist crazy" I am. I'm also a very shy, quiet and introverted person.

My shyness, quietness and introversion all went out the window when I began to wonder about this war and the reasons we were spoonfed for going into Iraq. Even before my son died, I began to question because we did not find the promised WMD's. We were not exactly greeted as liberators when we went into Iraq.

Now I speak up and try to end this damned war. Why? Because I don't want even one more family to experience the heartache that mine has and will for the rest of our lives. Because I have spoken to many, many Iraq vets who have expressed to me they don't understand why we are there, that we need to come home ASAP. Because these same women and men ask of me to not give up the fight to bring them home. Some of these men and women have been to Iraq three times and know they will be going again.

For speaking up I have taken a lot of heat, been told I am unpatriotic, unChristian, demeaning my son's sacrifice, you name it. I've heard it and probably more. Me, the mother of a son who died serving his country. Yeah, right. Walk a mile in my shoes one day.

How many soldiers have you spoken to? How many families have you comforted? How many funerals have you been to and how many times have you gone to a cemetery to lay flowers at the grave of a loved one that died so needlessly?

Another thing. We are creating a new generation of terrorists by our presence in Iraq. There was not a problem there before the occupation. What in the hell makes us think we can go into this foreign country, a civilization that has existed for thousands of years before our country even existed, and tell them how to run their country? It's something like a two-year old telling his great grandfather how to live his life.

Sure, Saddam needed to be removed for humanitarian reasons. But that was not the reason the American people and the world were given as justification for this war. We were lied to plain and simple. And that's what so many people are so mad about. Oh, and by the way, even Bill O'Reilly is calling for us to leave Iraq, believe it or not. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself: http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001526357

One last thing and I'm done. Last week the major political and legal factions in Iraq started calling for a timetable of withdrawal of the foreign occupiers of Iraq. They want the Americans to leave. Their lives are worse, not better, than before we invaded. They live with a daily struggle worse than anything you or I could ever imagine, living in fear every day that this might be their last day on earth. We need to leave as soon as possible so they can get their lives, their culture, their country back. We owe them that much, at the very least.

Dear Amy,

I give you my heartfelt condolences for the loss of your brave and patriotic son. I'll bet if you research your family history there were many like him who fought for our country in previous wars. I thank them all.

You wrote:

"You say the Democrats were privy to the same information as the President -- you couldn't be more wrong. It has long been a practice that the President gets a "Presidential Daily Briefing" that contains classified information that only a very few people see. Those few people do NOT include members of Congress or the Senate."

Are you referring to President Clinton? After all he is on record plenty of times stating the same conclusion as President Bush. How about the rest of the worlds intelligence communities, along with the U.N.? Your argument does not hold an ice cube, let alone water.

You also wrote:

"One last thing and I'm done. Last week the major political and legal factions in Iraq started calling for a timetable of withdrawal of the foreign occupiers of Iraq. They want the Americans to leave. Their lives are worse, not better, than before we invaded. They live with a daily struggle worse than anything you or I could ever imagine, living in fear every day that this might be their last day on earth. We need to leave as soon as possible so they can get their lives, their culture, their country back. We owe them that much, at the very least."

Are you advocating letting Saddam Hussain out of jail and back to his palace? If so, say so specifically.

Are you saying the millions who have been voting that they want things back to the way it was in 2000?

And as you know, President Bush has said all along we will leave when the Iraq's can stand on their own. The current ELECTED government of Iraq want us there until that time. Your son and his fellow soldiers have hit several milestones in a few short years, you should stop demeaning their sacrafices. (In my humble opinion of course)

No where in my letter did I advocate letting Saddam Hussain out of jail. Didn't even mention it, so I don't know where that came from. Don't distort what I am saying to you. Seems you have learned well from those who are so good at it.

Also, follow the link below for an article about the PDB. I did not mention Pres. Clinton, so I don't know where that's coming from. What I said is that most people do not have access to this information, and are only told what the President wants them to know. Doesn't matter what Pres. Clinton thought at this point. And the rest of the world was begging and pleading with us NOT to go into Iraq because it would destabilize the middle east. They were right and we were wrong.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/112305/opi_letters1001.shtml

I am very, very familiar with my family's history. My father served honorably in Viet Nam and received a Purple Heart. So did one of his brothers. I thank them and I honor them for their service.

The soldiers now are doing the bidding of their corrupt leaders. I honor these soldiers and thank them for their service. And I want them home. Plain and simple. What is demeaning is people like you who twist and distort the truth for their own personal and political agendas.

Amy,
If you don't want Saddam back, what did you mean by this:
"Their lives are worse, not better, than before we invaded. They live with a daily struggle worse than anything you or I could ever imagine, living in fear every day that this might be their last day on earth. We need to leave as soon as possible so they can get their lives, their culture, their country back. We owe them that much, at the very least."

Whether you want to admit it or not, what you are doing is demoralizing the troops and aiding the terrorists; Just like Bin Laden wrote that the Democrats would do.

Jennifer,

If you are so gung ho on this war and think it serves a noble purpose then why don't you shut your piehole and go enlist, hmmmm? All you have done throughout this whole thread is repeat Rethug talking points. You have been brainwashed, darling, and I don't think you're too bright. You have no business whatsoever telling Amy Branham anything about the Iraq war, her son, past and current soldiers sacrificing their lives and others' lives in Iraq etc. How old are you anyway? You seem extremely naive or else you are merely a Freeper who gets off to stirring up trouble on a blog. Which is it? Go somewhere else, Jennifer. We don't buy your Rethug talking points crap.

Oh, by the way, Bill Clinton was a total creep and a pro big business so called Democrat. I don't agree with him authorizing the bombing of Iraq or the implementation of economic sanctions on that country. I have said and continue to say that 100% of Rethugs in Congress are bought and paid for by corporations and at least 75% of Democrats are, too. They ALL need to be turned out of office! All who voted to give the Chimp authorization to invade Iraq should be fired! All who voted for the monstrous and unneeded Patriot Act should be fired! It's time to clean house at the White House! We need true progressive POPULIST leaders in this country who are answerable ONLY to the people.

Why don't you post all comments John?

Because your are the only ones that are so mis-under-informed.

Where do you get your so called "facts"?

Even John McCain has admitted the intelligence leading us into war was WRONG. And even Bush and Cheney are now publically stating the intelligence may have been WRONG.

So instead of constant back peddling, why isnt the administration asking "Who provided me and congress with false intelligence that lead to the deaths of over 2100 of our American soldiers?"

I know the answer to this question. Do you?

Or are you still drowing in denial?

Give us the answer John. Are implying President Bush "hood-winked" the entire world's intelligence agencies for 12 years about Saddam?

Like any other interactive format hosted by liberals this bog will disappear because you guys can't take debating with facts; you're all emotion and zero substance.

YOU can't even spell, Jennifer. Good grief! I'm dealing with an illiterate idiot. Bush is not smart enough to hoodwink anyone. Reports had already been given to Bush and Cheney stating Saddam had no connection to al Qaeda and no Weapons of Mass Destruction. The "intelligence" was fabricated in order to sell the war to Congress and the American people, and obviously, you bought the ruse!! Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Rice, Feith, Hadley, Libby, Rove, Powell and numerous others (some PNAC members) cooked this whole thing up so they could get their war on and get their filthy hands on that Iraqi crude. Bush is Cheney's meat puppet, dumbass. He does what he is told (most of the time). If left to his own devices he couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the side. You saw the screw up he made in nominating Harriet Miers!! Cheney was busy getting blood clots or something taken out of his legs (yeah, right) and Rove was busy probably trying to figure out how to keep from getting indicted, so Bushie boy was on his own on that one, and boy howdy, did the Religiously Insane Right go crackers over that one!! pResident Cheney needed his new Pearl Harbour and boy, did he get it with 9-11!! I wouldn't be surprised if those evil bastards weren't instrumental in making 9-11 a reality!

You creeps have no facts to back up your preposterous claims. This blog will go on as long as we desire it to go on. You, however, are backing the wrong horse, sweetie pie. You're fixing to lose big time, and I'm going to laugh my ass off when all you stupid assholes go down the tubes along with your unelected chimpanzee president and his evil antichrist vice president.

Thanks for giving me a good laugh today, Jennifer. I always enjoy knocking a stupid Rethug puke down a peg or two.

Kris,

I'm glad all of those Democrat Senators & Congressmen who saw the same intelligence and voted to give the President the authority to go to war didn't feel as you do.

By the way; Why such a potty mouth?

The Congress DID NOT see the same intelligence that Dumbya saw. Congress only saw what Dumbya and Company ALLOWED them to see.

The reason I cuss is because I am sick and tired of dealing with dumbshits like you who are the reason this country is going to Hell in a handbasket.

You're still not answering my question, love. WHY DON'T YOU GO ENLIST IN THE ARMY OR THE MARINES AND VOLUNTEER TO GO TO IRAQ AND DEMOCRATIZE ALL THOSE POOR IRAQIS???!!!!

ANSWER THE QUESTION, YOU COWARD. YOU ARE MERELY A BUSH APOLOGIST AND MOUTHPIECE LIKE ALL THE OTHER FASCIST, WAR LOVING, COWARDLY RETHUGLICANS.

Ms. Diamico, you wrote "I'm glad all of those Democrat Senators & Congressmen who saw the same intelligence and voted to give the President the authority to go to war didn't feel as you do." Well, guess what?? A lot of them have changed their minds from both sides of the aisle, and, rest assured, more of them will change their minds in the future. After all, they are politicians (weathervanes) and not the people (the wind). That kind of leaves that argument, and you, hangin', Ms. Diamico. Remember your comment on how history will judge my beliefs? In the words of your h(z)ero, "Bring 'em on."

Despite everything you Democrats, both electors and electee's, do to demoralize the troops and crap on the hero's that have perished, America will win the war on terrorism.

It's just sad that you people are willing to sacrifice the country in an attempt to get your political power back.

The Americans who have perished in Iraq were lied to by this illegal, unelected president and his illegal, corrupt administration. The countless Iraqis who have perished were murdered by American soldiers and some by suicide bombers. They never would've died by any of those people if Bush had not started this illegal war against an innocent sovereign nation. It is not Democrats who crap on fallen heroes, Jennifer. It is worthless, lying, sacks of shit like you and those you worship.

I will agree that approximately 75% of Democrats on the Hill are bought and paid for by the self same corporations who own 100% of the Republicans on the Hill. That is why those of us who are forward thinking individuals intend to get true populist Democrats elected on a local, state and national scale. That will change the face of politics as we know it.

One cannot win a war on a noun, Jennifer. I'm tired of you and all the other Rethugs referring to a war on terror or a war on terrorism or as Bush likes to put it now the "global struggle against Islamic extremism" or some such worthless crap as that.

YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION, JENNIFER!! IF YOU ARE SO GUNG HO ON THE IRAQ WAR AND THINK IT IS SUCH A NOBLE THING THEN WHY DON'T YOU ENLIST IN THE ARMY OR THE MARINES AND ASK TO BE DEPLOYED TO IRAQ??

What's the matter, Jennifer. Cat got your tongue? If you are a Coast Guard veteran then you shouldn't have a problem serving in another capacity in another branch of the military. If you truly think our soldiers are in Iraq to democratize the Iraqis and bring freedom to an oppressed people then by all means, sign up NOW!! Better yet, just shut your mouth.

You bore me.

Everyone,
People like Jennifer cannot be reasoned with and people like her will NOT EVER admit they might have been wrong. There is no point in even trying to have an intelligent debate or discussion. She has consistently twisted and distorted what all of us have said.

You know, a funny thing happened today that typifies this kind of person. My husband and I went to Crawford for the rally. Before the rally a couple dozen of us decided to go down to the security check point and protest with banners and signs, as we knew that Bush would be having guests over to watch a football game or something. So, we're standing there, on the edge of the road. A few media come and go. Cars and trucks loaded with people come and go. Some people are waving and giving us the peace sign. Others just looked straight ahead and ignored us. When cars stopped to go through the check point, we turned up the heat and chanted louder.

The funniest thing, though, was this little old couple who drove by. First they drove by across the road from me, so I couldn't see what the old lady was doing. The protesters were laughing at her. They went around the curve in the road, turned around and came back, slowly cruising by where I was standing with a few people. And -- get this -- she stuck her tongue out at us! An eighty-something year old woman stuck her tongue out at us like she was still in first grade or something. I started laughing so hard I had tears running down my face. My husband was laughing his butt off and pointing at her. It was a real highlight to my day and a great demonstration of the kind of mentality we are dealing with.

Ignore Jennifer. She is in the minority now and getting desperate. We can all see that quite clearly. As for me, I'm just going to feel sorry for her that she would be so naive as to believe the crap she is being fed. And I hope someday she wakes up and smells the coffee. I hope she can live with herself when she realizes the harm her beloved King George has done in the world and in our country, and she supported him.

In Peace,
Amy

Potty mouth Kris,

Step away from the drugs and/or alchohol. You offer nothing but personal attacks. I served my country when I was able, you did not.

We have a 100% volunteer Military. If you don't think freedom is worth fighting for don't sign up. But don't crap on those of us who did.

You are a coward, plain and simple.

I'm completely clean and sober. I don't do drugs and drink only occasionally, so shut the hell up. Yeah, you served your country when you were able. I would imagine you are nothing but an ignorant bumpkin who decided to join the easiest branch of the military, the Coast Guard, in order to get the benefits and probably the college education. I'm sure you figured you'd never see any type of combat in the Coast Guard, so that was the branch of the military you chose to "serve" in. What a joke you are!

Whose freedom are we fighting for in Iraq, Jennifer? Is the price of "freedom" getting blown up, tortured, burned with chemical weapons, incarcerated without due process? The soldiers sure as hell aren't fighting for OUR freedom! God, you are totally screwed in the head!

I guess you have no intention of telling any of us on this blog why you haven't volunteered and enlisted in either the Army or the Marines. The truth is you have NO INTENTION of enlisting in either branch because then you would most certainly see combat in Iraq, and everyone here knows what a COWARDLY piece of trash you are. You talk the talk, alright, but you don't walk the walk.

Amy Branham is right. There is no use talking to moronic chimpanzees like you. Get off the blog, monkey, and have another banana.

John Cobarruvias began this blog with the following:

"When you can't debate the facts, resort to personal attacks. --Karl Rove Playbook on Dirty Politics. The president of the Clear Lake Republicans in south Houston has responded to our challenge to accept the debate on Iraq sponsored by the Clear Lake High School Debate Club. Instead of debating the facts, Mr. Tobin has decided to resort to personal attacks."

Now I ask you to read through the relpies and tell me who uses the personal attacks.

Sniff sniff. Get out your crying towel and stop your blathering. You started all this by referring to Democrats as cowards. Just because we don't choose to file lock step behind you and the illegal chimpanzee president who the Supreme Court SELECTED in 2000 and who stole the 2004 election, doesn't make any of us cowards.

You have no facts to back up your lies, Jennifer, and it absolutely rankles you because we have hard facts to back up our assertions. All you have is empty rhetoric and talking points provided by fascist murderers.

Wake up and smell the coffee, dearie. The tide is turning in this country. You and the other 30 percenters are backing the wrong horse, and you are on the wrong side of history.

Mop up your tears and shut your mouth, Jennifer. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

They are so clueless, the 35% of them who still think Sadaam flew one of the planes into the towers.

It is almost funny watching them make up excuse after excuse why we attacked Iraq and why we have to "stay the course".

it would be funnier if people weren't dying for this stupidity.

FREEDUMB!

Facts? Sure Kris, you use facts. The sad part is that you actually believe your spin.

It's a shame, the Democrat Party at least used to stand for something. It has been hijacked by a bunch of rabid, potty mouthed, anti-America lunatics.

Thank GOD for pro-America Republicans.

Good grief! You ARE thick in the cranium, Jennifer. Who needs to spin when facts are on one's side? It's your party who does the spinnin' because the facts are not on the side of the murdering fascist Rethuglican Party.

You call the Rethug Party PRO AMERICA?!!! What a joke!! How is it pro America to invade a sovereign nation on false pretenses and then kill and maim its citizens?! How is it pro America for a Rethug member of the Bush administration to out an undercover CIA agent?! How is it pro America for a Rethug administration to give tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans while cutting services for the poorest?! How is it pro America for a Rethuglican administration to allow corporate lobbyists to roam the halls of Congress and make the laws affecting average citizens?!

It is YOU, monkey, who are living in a bizarro world. I'm sure there is some sort of therapy you can get into for your paranoid delusions.

Why is it that the majority of the American people, Republican and Democrat alike, are turning against the Bush administration, hmmmm? Perhaps they are finally waking up from their stupor and realizing they have been duped, and it has cost this country dearly in lives and treasure. Why are YOU and the other 30% of deranged inbreds still kissing the Bush administration ring?

I have come to the conclusion that you are either a(n):

a.) fascist
b.) uneducated illiterate bumpkin
c.) racist piece of trash
d.) sociopath
e.) all of the above

Which is it, monkey? Or is it e.)all of the above. I'm inclined to believe the correct choice is (e).

a.) fascist
Hardly, I'm a capitalist
b.) uneducated illiterate bumpkin
College graduate
c.) racist piece of trash
What on Earth are you talking about? We have not even discussed race.
d.) sociopath
I prefer brilliant realist.

a.) fascist
Hardly, I'm a capitalist
Reply: Fascists ARE capitalists, Diamico.
b.) uneducated illiterate bumpkin
College graduate
Reply: College graduates can also be illiterate bumpkins, Diamico. Check out yer prez.
c.) racist piece of trash
What on Earth are you talking about? We have not even discussed race.
Reply: You are a white, Fascist/capitalist, uneducated college grad who is a rethuglican. Why, I'd even bet your best friend is.....(insert minority)?
d.) sociopath
I prefer brilliant realist.
Reply: Sociopaths can be brilliant realists, Diamico. Even Hitler knew when it was time to check out.

Aaaaah, I see. I suppose you agree wholeheartedly with NAFTA, CAFTA, the WTO etc. I suppose you don't have a problem with totalitarian globalization. You seem to think more people are employed under the Chimp's illegal term in office. I guess if you count burger flipping jobs as GOOD jobs then maybe more people are employed in those. Quite a few well paying white collar jobs have gone by the wayside. You certainly don't think or write like a college graduate. You seem incapable of thinking for yourself and are perfectly happy to repeat Rethug talking points. I did seem to be correct, however, in that you joined the Coast Guard in order to get a college education. As to your comment on race, racist was one choice as many people vote their prejudices when they vote Republican. Are you a racist? It seems you are as you advocate letting the poor and lower middle class minorities and poor and middle class whites fight a war YOU don't want to fight. I disagree vehemently with your assertion that you are either brilliant or a realist. You are neither. You are delusional and seem to live in an alternate universe. You really should seek some help for that. You appear to be completely narcissistic and egomaniacal.

This conversation has degenerated into personal attacks from all concerned. I'm closing the thread.